Cara’s Commentary & Community Chat, Tues., Apr. 21, 2009

[8:30am ET] Yesterday, and on the weekend, I asked the question,

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216 Comments

  1. Bull Hunter(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    Good morning.

    New:

    NOK – Jefferies & Co. Initiates Coverage with a Buy.

    Price Target Raised:

    ORCL – from $19 to $22 @ Jefferies & Co. Buy

    —————

    Other Stocks of Possible Interest:

    ABX – Upgraded to Overweight @ Thomas Weisel. Price Target = $40

    ——-

    Back with more when/if they happen here on CaraVision.

  2. NYUGrad(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    For risk tolerant traders who have ability to follow their portfolio, should prob have a list of bearish etf’s.

    They are nice instruments to get in and out vs shorting. And or hedging your longs.

    Here is my own list of 37 I follow. Please do your own research
    *not meant as advice

    File attached. No particular order.

  3. vinod(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    2nd
    Once FAS 5.90 is taken out, I think there is no bottom now?
    Now I think it is SRS and FAZ time with tight stop

    • 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 1:08 pm

      Vinod- Still targeting at least DJIA 7200-7500. I just don’t know about the ultras- holding periods would have to be very short.

      • 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 1:14 pm

        Just trying to game the emotions re FAS/FAZ, which must be high right now. FAS holders absolutely getting shaken out (I would even bet they are shaken, period). So a lot of supply.

        SRS- Yes. I’ll watch for an entry.

        • vinod(118083 comments)-
          April 21, 2009 at 1:16 pm
          • Les(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 1:30 pm

            Its moving so fast!

            Was eyeing FAZ at 82 cents. 3 minutes later its $1.2+

  4. tango6(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    Agree with you 100 per cent, Bill. Only central banks and the imf can throw tonnes of gold at the market in a single hour or day. Which means it’s a rigged market. What we are banking on (oops) is that ultimately the people’s demand for value will overwhelm the ability of the central bankers to manipulate prices. My view.

    • johnuk(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 1:45 pm

      Evans Pritchard comments on the Gold price, he says Gold may reach $1500 soon. He also says :-

      “There are already reports that gold bars are becoming scarce, partly due to fears that futures contracts and other forms of paper gold may not prove reliable if there is a serious break-down in the global financial system.”

      http://tinyurl.com/cmhsmo

      Maybe when confidence in paper Gold is shaken and investors dont trust it, then we will get the true market price.(my comment not at quote)

      Also here is a link to a preview of what is in store when Alistair Darling reports his UK budget in London tomorrow.

      http://tinyurl.com/c4tqvn

      Quote:- The figures are likely to cause jitters in financial markets.

      • dr.cosa(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 2:23 pm

        thx for the article,

        Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is generally a EU-perma bear, bullish on gold and prone to making blustery statements that never come true, at least not anywhere near the time frames he suggests.

        anyways, i have yet to see any conclusive evidence that there is “unprecedented demand for gold bars” that is causing some sort of disruption in the markets… if there is such demand, why isnt the price rising sky high? of course solid gold bars purchases over the counter are going to catch a premium to the spot price, same for coins.

        high demand for coins does not equal a rising price of gold. demand for gold bars, gold mining companies and futures contracts make up the lions share. its where the central banks play, its where the ETF’s play and where the mining shares are housed.

        does anyone really believe anecdotal stories about difficulties getting gold bars as being bullish of gold $100 of a high reached over 1 year ago?

        i cant get a green honda civic in toronto right now, its going to take a few months and cost me extra, does that mean theres collusion in the honda civic market? are honda civic’s rare? or just one colour of civic’s that fetch a premium?

        gold bars sold to private citizens, minted and held by banks or dealers are dwarfed by the sheer size and volume of the big ETF’s, gold funds and the COMEX. deliveries on COMEX gold arent having much of an impact either? why arent people taking delivery en mass from the COMEX? sure they might be making it hard and you can only do it for larger sums, but if there was all this aggregate demand, then would medium sized dealers be able to enter the market, buy large bars knowing they could sell them at a hefty premium to all these alleged buyers?

        thats the beauty of the futures market, if youre seeing all this demand, then take delivery and in a month youll have gold to divy up to all these buyers… or are there not enough to make it worth the investment in COMEX contract for gold? or are they not willing to pay enough above the spot price to make it worth your while? think about it…

        or are we really talking about people trying to buy small denomination coins and bars, which arent reflective of the gold price but supply of these unique items?

        stories about retail gold demand are just that: stories. the lead headlines on kitco everyday about “indian gold demand” are just blah blah blah blah. theres no trading basis on these concepts, jewelers who are selling gold to indian familes for wedding gifts have purchased said gold from someone already… well before buying season, and whomever sold them gold purchased it from somewhere too….

        whats my point: youre focusing on the end purchaser not considering that someone has already bought the stocks they are selling. how is someone buying a gold necklace indicative of anything when the retailer already has bought the gold to make a necklace…

        again, this is akin to the whole “the chinese are buying gold and resources”, so is every other country with a population that needs raw materials. someone is selling the stuff to the buyers, thats not implicitly bullish.

        if there is collusion on the COMEX and illegal activity on the paper gold market, it will likely cause sudden and massive disruptions in the price as people rush in and out depending on the situation. those holding core positions in gold always protect themselves from possible price spikes that have happened before and will happen again.

        but in the meantime if people think indian gold jewlery buying, chinese claims on IMF gold or coil dealer buying are bullish factors, good luck, may as well check your horriscope (or bio-dex for Toronto sun readers) for trading advice.

        • davefairtex(118083 comments)-
          April 21, 2009 at 2:37 pm

          Dr Cosa I always appreciate your skeptical eye on the perma gold bugs. Deflates the bubble a little bit, reminds us these are just prices. “But gold is so pretty!”

          You have clearly watched gold and read way too many newsletters at this point and are now jaded. Given your viewpoint, what did you think about the article entitled “Did the ECB save COMEX from gold default?” There’s a bunch of speculation in there, but the one hard number that actually did impress me was the sheer number of people demanding actual delivery.

          If the number of open contracts at expiration really was 15% of the total, does this speak to either a factual scarcity we hear so much about, or merely the premiums that the scarcity story allows the dealers to charge? What does that kind of demand for physical imply?

          • dr.cosa(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 2:56 pm

            interesting question mr. fairtex,

            i think the final gasp of a gold-bug is to accuse people like me of being jaded simply because i know their playbook as well as anyone.

            gold hasnt been a precious metal, valued as money for centuries because some newsletter writer figured out how to fool-proof a system to make money off it. if gold were anymore predictable than other commodities it would loose its capacity to act as a referee of fiat money supply. due to its nature gold moves in ways that people have attempted to explain for thousands of years but have rarely agreed upon. fortunes won and lost by very knowledgable people in the industry are testament to that.

            does anyone really believe a gold mining CEO knows where the gold price is going medium-long term any more than the rest of us do on this board of shared knowledge?

            the beauty of gold is its inherent speculative nature. its nothing new, fake gold coins or comprimised purity of gold coins have been a problem for time eternal. today its paper gold that poses the problem. so my contention is more that in a general sense nothing has changed, no paradigm shift has occured, and that what we THINK will make gold go up has time after time proven just the opposite.

            we are sitting 1 year in from alleged masssive monetary stimulus and gold is $100 off its high. mining shares have been decimated at the same levels when gold was much much much lower. while gold bugs have been saying all the reasons under the sun why this will change, and why gold will soon explode, people trade away and life goes on.

            who knows if the ECB save the COMEX. really, think about it for a second, does anyone really know this for a fact? and why after the fact has gold sunk? does it really matter? one group sells or leases their gold to another group…. what is it with people’s insistance in only focusing on the party buying gold and not on the party selling the gold?

            if the EU saved the Comex by lending say 1000 huge bars of gold when prices were at $880, then do they earn profit when gold moved back above $900? if not, then why save the comex? just so the ECB could loose money?

            remember when the COMEX was in trouble alledgedly last year due to deliveries? and the Iranian oil bourse… and oil sold in euro’s.. and the collapse of the US dollar, or quantitative easing announcements…

            were back to where we started after all these magical events… and somehow im jaded?

          • davefairtex(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 3:07 pm

            Hey I only meant jaded in a good sense. Probably should have picked a better word. Skeptical of the constant claims of gold glamour. Jaded about that part. I think it’s a good thing. I rely on your jaded eye to cut through the crapola. 🙂

            I was referring not to the fact that COMEX was saved, or by whom. As you say that’s just the general fun speculation that seems to be constantly connected with gold folks. Really I was focused on the demand for physical that sounded much larger than normal. That part, presumably was not speculation. Have any thoughts on that one? I’m just asking for your experienced eye in these matters.

          • FranSix(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 3:32 pm

            I would prefer if people gave gold a chance to do its job.

            What is happening is a massive crash in the copper price, and with it an entire mining industry which is inclined to offset its losses by dumping its gold by-product as fast as it can. But there is certainly an increase in demand for gold since year 2000. There is no comparison between the gold market of 8 years ago and now.

            Once the gold price goes above a certain level, I’m pretty sure that discouragement about the price and its manipulation will evaporate. Used to be a self-fulfilling prophecy that gold wasn’t worth its weight. And really, it hasn’t been for a very, very long time. “Oil” people would garrulously garble. ‘Fix your currency to oil!’ Famous last words, imo.

            Just ask anyone what they think about gold, and they’re pretty sure to reply that its an artefact with mere notional value that people decide upon amongst themselves. Perhaps they’ve been to see the pharoah. Or, if they’re investors in the sector, they’re likely to say its a store of value. Even some will complain its just a paper market. Still others say that its better to look after something else, silver perhaps or copper, since they are all the more real. An object with mere talismanic effect.

            But what if gold, the commodity, were a primary market? That is, a market with massive world participation where it becomes a key driver in the financial sector used to expand liquidity? Certainly you’d say that about government bonds, or forex. These markets go into the trillions per day in trade. But that would take a massive expansion of either the gold supply, or an increase of price, wouldn’t it? The bond markets tick up and down in the matter of price by a few points over the years, and since 1982, the U.S. long bond hasn’t yet doubled.(I must admit, interest rates have swung by a larger margin) The U.S. dollar has lost only a percentage of its “true” value. Something to consider.

            The primary market in the world, which is the derivatives market, is a mere notional one, where value isn’t questioned, it just doesn’t come into play. Its all about controlling the underlying assets, not exactly the prices. And we’re talking about a market which is presumed to be in excess of a quadrillion dollars. And yet this market can easily go to zero without certain props and legislative actions. And in very short order.

            Which of these would you prefer to be a primary market?

  5. 1airbornevet(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    wow. great stuff. i am being led to the water of life.

  6. 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Clearing the table pre-market.

    • Johnny(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 1:34 pm

      Keeping my powder dry:
      FAS
      3/5,6,9 – 2 handle
      3/16 – 4.87
      3/20 – 5.00
      3/30 – 4.84

  7. tom sheepngoats(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 1:19 pm
  8. Craig(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Well, well…..time to re-examine where we are.
    Sure glad I set my stops on Friday knowing I would be away Monday. HA!
    Got kicked out of USO but my SLV/SLW purchases from last week are on my side.
    I only had four positions open EOD Friday with concern over oil, which did what I thought it might on a correction.

    Those with ultra short positions from last week are happy! But we knew this was coming, didn’t we?

    • Les(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 1:36 pm

      RE: Those with ultra short positions from last week are happy! But we knew this was coming, didn’t we?

      yet so many of us sold those ultra shorts yesterday…

      • 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 1:44 pm

        Les- Don’t be so hard on yourself. Let yesterday go, and focus on today- look where FAZ is now, 11.82…

  9. danielj(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    The Quiet Coup

    http://tinyurl.com/dh24b7

  10. Bill Cara(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    If Europe is any indication, it looks like NY is headed south on the bullet train. The Banksters are riding the locomotive.

    • Bill Cara(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 3:05 pm

      Volatility returns. Nice turn.

      • Chickenpookie(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 4:02 pm

        I’m wondering how that SRS trade worked out…

        • 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
          April 21, 2009 at 4:43 pm

          “I’m wondering how that SRS trade worked out…”

          Worked out OK. Out @ 33.77. Sorry, there’s too much going on today>> so I’m trading, not posting 😉

  11. cuvo(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Yesterday brought a sell-off in financials that seemed considerably overdue. What lies ahead?

    In my view, we’ve reached a stage in the unraveling of the massive fraud which constitutes our financial system where all the usual tricks employed by the Fed and its cronies throughout the world are losing their magic, and even backfiring in the desperate attempts to keep the moribund system aloft.

    The number one essential ingredient needed for recovery is confidence in the system. Retirements have been wrecked. Savings savaged. Debt default is detonating. Every day comes more horrifying evidence that the underpinnings and buttresses of our entire way of life are completely fraudulent, rotten and corrupt. And are collapsing.

    Our so-called free markets have been manipulated and gamed all along, of course. But this late bear market rally mushroomed most unnaturally and palpably reeks of intervention, thereby undermining the very confidence that the authorities would seek to promote (one would think… Or is this just part of the looting endgame?)

    Secrecy, lies, deceit and accounting gimmicks have been the bulwarks of the confidence game. Layer upon layer. Phony financial reports, skewed statistics, bogus ratings, rigged markets. Now, with towering losses, and taxpayer and congressional involvement, there is a growing clamor for transparency and accountability. Indeed, truth and candor are required for real and lasting repair to the economy. Unfortunately, these virtues are incompatible with preserving the status quo, which is the natural aim of the power elite.

    Now their game increasingly yields lose-lose outcomes. So, in the case of the bank ‘Stress Test’ results release, if the revelations are too vague and dubiously positive, they will fail to inspire confidence and instead will increase suspicion. And if they were to show just how bad things really are, the effect… will not be pleasing to say the least.

    Which leads me to brace for a collapse of confidence. Probably sooner than later. The interventionists are no doubt acquiring gold and silver for themselves even as they depress the prices. This is a gift. I strongly encourage readers to do likewise.

  12. dr.cosa(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    i dont know what to make of gold’s action,
    on one hand a move above $890 is great,
    but i fear a massive position just above $900 that might serve to beat
    the POG back down.

    for all the buyers at the $860-$870 level may get scurred off if we dont blast right through $900 and encounter some blowback.

    so a move just above $900 wouldnt immediately indicate bullishness or bearishness to me until we see the follow through. if we move solidly through $900 w/ the broad market falling, bonds and the USD rising, then something might be brewing…

    • Craig(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 1:43 pm

      Pretty clear head and shoulders on the GLD chart Dr. Cosa.
      Technically ugly, fundamentally strong? Manipulation does that….

  13. davefairtex(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    Well someone is really bidding up the financials.
    But the volume doesn’t look all that strong.
    I’m guessing its just – what was it, doing a test?

  14. 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    Whoa. One blink trade.

    • Les(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 1:49 pm
      • 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 2:21 pm

        Les- What puzzles me are the negative connotations attached to ‘day trader’ and ‘excessive trading.’ I don’t hear complaints about ‘day workers’ or problems with students/ballplayers engaged in ‘excessive studying/field practice.’

        • Les(118083 comments)-
          April 21, 2009 at 2:26 pm

          Connotations don’t bother me.

          But the warning from IB is that they’re about to freeze my account for 90 days if I buy and sell one more time this week.

          At least they give me a warning.

          gotta play the canadian market for a quick gain.

          • Freedom57(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 2:43 pm

            “But the warning from IB is that they’re about to freeze my account for 90 days if I buy and sell one more time this week.

            At least they give me a warning.”

            Les, on IB you can see the number of day trades available on the Account page, “Available for Trading” heading. In that section you will see available funds, and at the bottom the day trades left for each of the next 5 business days. (If account is over $25,000 US it will indicate “unlimited”.)

          • Les(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 2:49 pm

            thanks, I have ticked the box so I can see that all the time now.

  15. 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    ..

    • Les(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 2:11 pm

      2nd, I’ve found SRS is copying FAZ.

      • Freedom57(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 2:24 pm

        Les, SKF also has a high correlation with SRS. Check it out on StockCharts “Performance Charts” feature.

        • Grym(118083 comments)-
          April 21, 2009 at 4:01 pm
          • Les(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 4:04 pm

            yeh thanks Grym. Read that. I treat all three like FAZ for trading purposes now. All gambling on the health of financials.

  16. 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    You can almost jump in anywhere, and be guaranteed you’ll get carried somewhere…

  17. NYUGrad(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    I sold my FAZ this am. couldnt say no to the gain in 1 day.

    I thought FAZ could retrace to 11.90 and it has. there is strong support for it at $9.90-10. Markets look like they want to defy gravity today.

    • 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 2:01 pm

      NYUGrad-

      31% in 24 hrs? Congrats.

  18. Bull Hunter(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    DEO – upgraded to a Buy at BofA/ML with a price target of $58, which implies a fwd. PE multiple of 12.8x and 7.2% FCF yield. Despite tough industry news Diageo’s share price appears to have found a floor. On an absolute basis price target and 4% DY implies attractive total return. On a relative basis, ML believes that Diageo is likely to underperform if the market rallies.

    IBM – estimates increased at UBS through 2010. Company realizing higher margins, because of cost initiatives. Neutral rating and $100 price target.

  19. Chickenpookie(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    TCK – Broke it off @$7.25
    KGC – Took small position @$14.88

    • Mark Barry(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 2:12 pm

      CP- “TCK – Broke it off @$7.25.” Last buy I remember by you was @ $5.00, no? Congrats, Man.

  20. Craig(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    Something lit the fuse….

  21. Les(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    If Brown’s budget (not Darling’s, let’s be clear who made this mess) cannot knock the rally of its pedestal, then nothing will.

    HFD @ 22.90

    HXD @ 23.05

    Let’s try for the long haul this time.

  22. NYUGrad(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    smaller position.

  23. teamonfuego(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    bought some at 20.10. orders improved at quarter end and they started putting their $$ to what I think is good use, buying Emulex. They are down from $23 recently.

  24. davefairtex(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    I’m just gonna point out what Bill said at the top:

    “There might be another attempt to rally the broad market before the next wave of selling, and if that happens, I think the gold market price could improve from here.”

    Really, the volume looks just so-so, but not like massive buying.
    Remember we’re supposed to not just look at price, but also at the volume behind it.
    And it doesn’t look like there’s much.

    I’m using this as a chance to get short.

    FD: Short, long Gold

  25. London(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    ALGT

    excellent earnings at highs.

    Short is 60% and float is tiny giving a big chance for squeeze.

  26. teamonfuego(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    I think this is a buying opportunity…chip stocks have basically announced that the bottom is in. Tech is doing pretty well relatively speaking. I think the rally continues for a little while longer…

    • Les(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 2:39 pm

      teamonfuego, did you read the anticipated forecast revision for the UK economy in 2009?

      Darling says the UK’s contracting even more than forecast.

      Can’t see too many finding the bright side of that…

      Mind you, I’d like to see how the US media spin it.

      • teamonfuego(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 2:42 pm

        I didn’t, but I did read the earnings reports from Texas Instruments (TXN), Broadcom (BRCM), and Intel (INTC), and it sure sounds like the bottom is in. All are projecting stronger sales in Q2. I’d rather listen to companies regarding demand than an economist.

        If a bottom in chip stocks is in then that means more demand for everything that has chips in it, from computers to iPods and cell phones. I think this bodes well for all tech stocks. I think it might be a decent time to start buying a little bit in the chip sector…TXN, BRCM, and INTC are good places to start…and the computer sector (HPQ, DELL)…buying more should the market continue to go down.

        I’m not saying we’re out of the woods, just that yesterday’s action may have been yet another headfake in the march higher to 950-ish.

  27. London(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    EBS-Emergent Biosolutions: WBB Securities upgrades to Buy from Hold; $15.60 tgt (10.58 )

    WBB Securities upgrades Emergent BioSolutions to Buy from Hold and sets a $15.60 tgt, as they believe, even in the absence fo any contract awards to develop an rPA vaccine, the co should continue to benefit from its current contract for the sale of its BioThrax anthrax vaccine to the US government for both the active immunization of military personnel and stockpiling purposes.

  28. Les(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Remember this name?

    I recall her being labelled an extremist and exaggerating her “shock doctrine” economic theory.

    Worth a second look now.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSF0e6oO_tw

  29. Chickenpookie(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    Added @$14.44

  30. Mark Barry(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    How’s that for the ultimate pair trade!

    • Chickenpookie(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 2:55 pm

      Well I don’t know how the future will play out but looking at the candlestick chart COF might be a decent long…

  31. NYUGrad(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    went against me and cut a small loss. then got busy at work.

    • Les(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 3:05 pm

      out of short canadian financials.

      my pain threshold was met.

  32. Craig(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    “were back to where we started after all these magical events… and somehow im jaded?”

    LOL! Doctor, is that bad? I’m appreciative of an intelligent counterpoint to some of the over-speculation.

  33. ebelog(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    is trading halted on teck, have not had a quote in 10m

    • danielj(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 3:21 pm

      yes, it’s halted, news…re bridge and term loan extension

      • davelee(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 3:25 pm

        On the Canadian side, I see bids that are 10+% higher than the last trade price. Don’t know if it means anything.

        Last trade = $9.50 CAD
        Current Bid/Ask = $10.80

    • Chickenpookie(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 3:32 pm

      My last quote was 10:55… no updates since.

      Looks like teck longs got lucky!

      “Teck Announces Bridge and Term Loan Extension-US$4.4 Billion of 2009 Payments Deferred”

  34. Chickenpookie(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    If you don’t like financials today you don’t like ice cream…

    • Les(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 3:15 pm

      waiting to see if the ice cream can take the worst UK budget in 50 years tomorrow without a licking – excuse the pun…

      • Chickenpookie(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 3:51 pm

        Good one, I liked the pun!

  35. NYUGrad(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    so far so good.

    day trade.

    I am also watching to see if FAZ will find support. especially around $9.90 area.

    • Les(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 3:17 pm

      ditto.

      I’m a dog chasing my tail.

      • Les(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 4:25 pm

        sold for peanuts. Will wait until end of trading now. looking to set up a short for tomorrow.

  36. Les(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:17 pm
  37. Zed(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    IMF releases gloomy outlook for world finance institutes VS. Geithner statement…what gives?

  38. bobj(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    Back trading in Canada at $12.20 – up 34%!

  39. tango6(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    leasing gold to the market = manipulation.

    http://www.silvermonthly.com/208/central-banks-lea

  40. shark_attack(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    Ok, so like a smart guy I bought plenty of C after BAC did it’s thing and a palpable rally erupted in the banks. What a goshdarn schizophrenic market eh? Down one day, up the next. Anyway, I made an almost miniscule profit in C when I should have held it longer and made a monster profit.

    I’m at the point with my trading that I usually do half the trade right an half the trade wrong still. Stunad!

  41. NYUGrad(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    34% pop in minutes? not shabby.

    • Bill Cara(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 4:04 pm

      Let’s first find out who the lenders are. Are they vulture capitalists like Brookfield or are they commercial banks?

      • Bill Cara(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 5:42 pm
        • Rugger09(118083 comments)-
          April 22, 2009 at 12:16 am

          Bill, I respect and admire you and your team’s diligent work (as evidenced by your above average successes). I have to sheepishly admit that I thought you were way off base with your insistence that TCK was not broken. I had thought that the CEO played texas hold’em with the company, went all in and got busted. I did not even begin a detailed look into their financial situation, I just THOUGHT that they were done.

          It all goes to show that the diligent, thoughtful and purposeful work is what really counts, not bravado filled ‘gut feels’ cuz I’m in the industry and THINK I KNOW better… I passed up a golden opportunity that you presented. I’ll live and learn.

  42. Les(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:36 pm
    • davefairtex(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 3:40 pm

      Well if we end up with someone like Elizabeth Warren heading the commission, something might come of it all.

      If it’s another Goldman alumni, it will be a total waste of time.

      • Grym(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 4:24 pm
        • Les(118083 comments)-
          April 21, 2009 at 4:26 pm

          I remember her private jet privelages from her place in CA to the few days a week she’s in Washington. Tis true she is not “one of us”.

          • Craig(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 4:32 pm

            Come on Les. More BS.

            She is the Speaker of the House and third in line to the Presidency. There are security issues she doesn’t have any choice in.

            PLEASE, the FACTS first.

          • Les(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 4:43 pm

            Take business class, and double check the manifesto…

            or take a time shared jet. She’s got SS guards to bomb check it.

            facts ha! Look where America’s security paranoia has taken it.

            “memento mori”

          • Craig(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 4:52 pm

            Time share maybe. I would imagine scheduling could raise substantial issues as you need a sharer.

            Business class commercial…there is no inspection of postal freight on *all* flights. There is NO security for commercial flights, period, which would preclude their use.

            Pilots union knows it and is trying to raise awareness, airlines resist as usual.

            Sorry about security, we have a Constitution here that provides for continuation of our government. It’s practical, not paranoid.

            In comparison, the unfounded attacks definitely appear paranoid. If this had started with some well founded facts, maybe we would have something….. But it started with crawling skin and deteriorated from there.

          • Max(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 5:13 pm

            From personal experience: the airlines don’t want high profile high risk targets on their flights. They want to move as many passengers on time and as quickly as possible. They can’t afford the delays that would be required to search planes, hold planes, screen and search passengers, screen commercial cargo, etc. As a passenger, I for one don’t want to be anywhere near the plane flying the 3rd in line to the presidency of the US.

            The airforce is, however set up to handle the job. The force is accustomed to moving high profile “clients” securely and efficiently, including the top brass in the services. They land and launch from secure facilities that can easily handle the needs of the large SS detail that accompanies dignitaries.

            I cringe whenever I see either political party plant soundbites that make the opposition appear petty to the general public who are unlikely to research or understand the reasons for these things.

            I would prefer to read well thought out discussions of the actions of our political leaders … not insults to their appearances or the way the pronounce words (like nuclear). Just food for thought.

          • davefairtex(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 5:31 pm

            Thanks for the comment Max, I agree completely.

            FD: When I’m in the US, Nancy Pelosi is my representative. While its conceptually fun having the speaker of the house as my rep, I have been less than happy with her handling of this entire crisis. But the fact she’s my rep does allow me to drop her an email whenever I feel in the mood, and I take full advantage of that.

          • Les(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 5:13 pm

            you are right Craig. I’d just like to see all politicians get off their high horse. To do that it takes positive, two way communication. In my country and yours there is a serious disconnect.

            I’d be happy to see our beloved elites make the first move by example.

          • Craig(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 5:35 pm

            I’m with you here Les! I’m not holding my breath mind you, but agree good examples are needed as well as 2 way communication.
            Effective investigation or not, I imagine the Speaker is trying to react to her constituents letters asking WTH is going on.

            She did mention it when she was on Jon Stewart’s show when he asked WTH is going on…..
            Seems the pressure is from both sides to have this done. That might be good.

          • campeagle1969(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 5:34 pm

            The truth is out there about:private jets and the speaker. Here’s the rest of the story.http://tiny.cc/ZrAnw .Enjoy.

        • Craig(118083 comments)-
          April 21, 2009 at 4:30 pm

          Wait…she threw out a shirt and you now know all about this person from that?

          You’re kidding, right? I’m sure you have proof of lying and cheating, otherwise it seems a little loose from the hip…..

          Seriously, i understand the cynicism with politicians, but we should endeavor to be accurate and exercise some reserve, we need credibility if we are to get anywhere and not look kooky to those we hope to recruit or influence.
          Calling names won’t cut it.

          • Grym(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 5:56 pm

            I’m not kidding and don’t think she was either. It was said in an, “I’m too important to stoop that low for ANYONE,” kind of attitude and tone of voice.
            (I don’t think it was Tina Fey.)

            🙂

            Not a person I would want to be around, far less be married to.

            My wife and I celebrated our 48th anniversary last week. There have been times when one of us didn’t jump to accommodate the other, but I guaranty if either had been that self-centered we would not have lasted 48 days together.

          • Craig(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 6:02 pm

            I think it’s fine to say you wouldn’t want to marry her or be around her or vote for her. I don’t think you can make any other assertions about her character from the story though.

            My wife and I have been married since 1976.
            If I were speaker I don’t think I would iron shirts either. Not a lot of time for domestic bliss….for either gender in such a role.
            I wouldn’t have thrown it out, I would have called the cleaners. I don’t know what that says about me other than I think clothes are expensive enough.

          • TraderGirl(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 6:20 pm

            Grym – congrats to you and your wife. 48 years and counting! May we all be so fortunate.

    • MtnGntx(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 3:51 pm

      Pelosi makes my skin crawl. My problem, to be sure…. but everytime that women says something, I am looking for the puppetstrings attached to her mandible.

      • Chickenpookie(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 3:59 pm

        “Pelosi makes my skin crawl.”

        Same here, I think maybe the Botox injections have seeped into her brain making her that way. Result: We detect something’s wrong but can’t put our finger on it.

        • Bill Cara(118083 comments)-
          April 21, 2009 at 4:03 pm

          Commenting about Pelosi’s physical appearance is not acceptable to at least half the people here.

          • Chickenpookie(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 4:30 pm

            “Commenting about Pelosi’s physical appearance is not acceptable”

            Apologize if I said something offensive. This won’t happen again, ever.

    • Ron Sen(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 4:04 pm

      From Bloomberg: where the rubber meets the road

      Members of Congress may be reluctant to tackle the recommendations of such an inquiry because of financial industry donations to political campaigns, said Wall Street historian Charles Geisst.

      Financial services has been the biggest contributor in every U.S. election cycle in the last 20 years, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a Washington research group that tracks campaign money. Its individual and political action committee donations in 2007 and 2008 totaled $463.5 million, compared with $163.8 million from the health-care industry and $75.6 million from energy companies.

      Politics…a low calling.

      • Les(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 4:06 pm

        You whipped out a fast, indisputable retort to deflate my little bubble of hope Ron Sen.

        I hope you treated your patients a little more kindly… 🙂

        R U still a doc?

        • Ron Sen(118083 comments)-
          April 21, 2009 at 4:16 pm

          oh, yes…why so cynical I guess…

          Back in my day…in medical school…we went to classes and studied at night. No time for hobbies…like becoming a serial killer (see boston.com)

          • Craig(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 4:19 pm

            Really? My only gripe was Bobby Goldsboro made me feel a little dated…:>)

            Other than that, I’m pretty good with cynicism.

    • knifecatcher(118083 comments)-
      April 22, 2009 at 3:03 am

      Re: Nancy Pelosi- Perhaps we need answers to other questions…like why we need to have someone in office that commutes via private jet from California every week. Or what was the purpose of flying to Rome to visit the pope? Your tax dollars at work????

  43. Chickenpookie(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    Oh man, I can’t believe I got screwdoodled out of my Teck!!! You guys who held on through earnings just got a big reward, Congrats!!!

  44. teamonfuego(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    buying more at 19.70. this is a solid company that has significantly diversified its revenue stream. they are getting beaten down because they are buying ELX at a premium, but ELX has 1/3 of its buyout price in cash and it is pretty cheaply valued ex-cash.

    Additionally, mgmt stated that revenues will be approx $940 MM next quarter vs estimates of $865 MM. This is sequential growth of about 11% and almost 10% above analyst estimates. Ask yourself if the stock will go back up to $23 soon. I think it will…

    • goldbug58(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 5:11 pm

      I like BRCM longer-term, but they didn’t report good numbers in January (loss of .31 per shr) and the support is around 16, where I bought and then sold it at 18 last Feb. They have a slot on the iPhone board (but QCOM has about 4 slots). ALTR, MCHP, LRCX, and NVLS are my other tech favorites, but I’m still cautious despite them seeing a brighter future.
      Good luck with it.

  45. FranSix(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    CRJ.TO got some attention on the day with a robust intercept. The daily chart for CRJ.TO is showing a massive cup and handle.

    What is interesting is they provide a photo of the drill core with the news release. You would barely notice the gold in the rock on such a minute scale. This is what gold is like, generally unseen in the rock by the miners who are literally mining based on the theory that the rock differs in shades of grey and that this rock holds the rewards.

    At first you notice that there are grease pencil marks in red on the cores. Then you notice that there are actually tiny flakes of metal in the rock with some magnification.

    http://www.clauderesources.com/news/releases/newsr

  46. NYUGrad(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    Back in again. same cost basis.

  47. Corner Stone(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    Especially with these damn manipulators opining and jiggering the market at will.
    Bears make out, bulls make out but –
    “Hogs get slaughtered”

  48. westcoaster(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    Was just talking to a friend who has family in Trail. The word around there is that the Keevil family are going to release some shares. I presume this would be the A voting. It will be interesting to see which big players will get ahold of those? BAM? What happens when there is new control group. Run it or package and sell?

  49. 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    Sorry, man. I have to take a one-day 30% jump.

    • Mark Barry(118083 comments)-
      April 22, 2009 at 12:41 am

      2nd- No problem. As far as I’m concerned, you can either just account for it as though you never sold it at the end of the year, or pick a replacement for it.
      The idea is a long term portfolio, not a prison.

      After reading Bill’s comments, I hope you pick the latter.

  50. Les(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 4:38 pm
  51. davefairtex(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 4:39 pm

    Heh you know Mr Geithner could be technically correct about the banks and their capital. Presumably, if the small local banks are doing fine, and only the ones that have over $100 billion are in trouble, his words would be accurate.

    After all, there are a lot more small banks than there are $100 billion dollar banks.

    • Bill Cara(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 4:56 pm

      Interesting to me was Treasury Secretary Geithner’s testimony that he could not speak about any bank by name. I guess he needs to be the President! Barack Obama not only named AIG as a bad company, but he named the people he said he was outraged by. Somehow, against the standard set by the President, I cannot square the Treasury Secretary’s comment.

      • Les(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 4:58 pm

        under the impression that these comments are short term tactical efforts for HB&B’s benefit.

        Pandi’s gone and backed him up with some vacant words of reassurance.

  52. Bill Cara(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    Stephen fell on some lava rock last Wednesday afternoon. He thought it was not too serious at the time, but unfortunately it got infected and he had minor surgery last night at the Hilo ER. Diane informed me that he has not been able to walk for five days now and the doctor said he will need around one week to get back on his feet again in a normal way. I sent our best wishes for a speedy return to good form.

    • Dr. Strangelove(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 5:12 pm

      Get well kaimu. Were you sacrificing an innocent to the volcano? I confess I tripped on a walnut and broke my hand in two places six month ago so I feel your pain. My middle finger wouldn’t bend and so had to be careful about waving … all better now but neighbors won’t talk to me.

    • shark_attack(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 5:25 pm

      Get better soon man!

      • dr.cosa(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 6:09 pm

        lava cannot stop kaimu.

        get well soon.

    • Bull Hunter(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 5:32 pm

      Just wanted add my best wishes for a speedy recovery.

      Regards,
      BH

  53. shark_attack(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 5:04 pm

    What is happening when a stock will show (example C at 1:01 and 16 seconds)
    a million or 2 million shares offered, I presume, and the offer itself makes the chart spike down even if the order isn’t filled. Weird.

  54. davelee(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    That’s enough for me. Gotta stop watching the fluctuating numbers… 🙂

    Everytime I try to get out of trading FAS/FAZ, they pull me back in!

    • NYUGrad(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 5:11 pm

      Its actually quite a beautiful day trading mechanism. think about it. 1 of them is guaranteed to always goes up today because the other goes down.

      trick is to not fall in love with either direction one is moving in, and trying to catch the right one to ride the up wave.

      Hope my point makes sense.

      • 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 5:33 pm

        This is Vegas. Absolutely. One winner, one loser, and then there’s the house. They rake the chips off at the end of each play>> seven out. Each market open is an entirely new play>> new roller. New odds/new assumptions apply for each day. I don’t know I would be betting these kinds of figures in Vegas, though.

        • vinod(118083 comments)-
          April 21, 2009 at 6:39 pm

          2nd
          -OEWQR got some at 11.50

          • 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 6:44 pm

            Vinod- You have guts, man.

          • vinod(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 6:55 pm

            this is a phony rally by banks, will not last?

          • 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 7:04 pm

            Vinod- Is it a ‘phony rally,’ or was it a successful ‘test’ of the (financial) bulls? I don’t know, and if I’m not sure, then I have to stay out of the way.

      • davelee(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 7:23 pm

        I see your point about not being too committed to one or the other, NYUGrad. I also see that you got back in. 🙂

        I take another look at FAS/FAZ, but I’ve got enough of FAS/FAZ for now.

        I must say these these 2 ETFs are the perfect illustrations of:
        – Bulls make money
        – Bears make money
        – Pigs get slaughtered

        A colleague and I went into FAZ on Thursday at ~$9.50. I got out at $10.20 yesterday, since it’s never wrong to sell to lock-in gain on speculative trades. He held on through the ~$13 earlier and wanted to sell higher. Now, he’s in the hole… Scary movement these ETFs…

  55. Les(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 5:33 pm

    RE:> “The airforce is, however set up to handle the job. The force is accustomed to moving high profile “clients” securely and efficiently, including the top brass in the services”

    Max, that was in part the point I was making, even if it wasn’t clear. Chalmers Johnson calls your top brass “pro consuls” in making comparisons to the Roman Empire. I won’t harp on the subject, but seeing public elites – both political and military (why can’t they fly C-141 like the grunts?) – flying around in commandeered jets doesn’t make me think of a Republic.

  56. Max(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    There was some discussion recently about how to detect program trading. See indexarb.com . Some vendors (e.g. tradestation) have symbols you can track to see when the arb is likely to occur. Problem is that it is wicked fast so you would have to be extremely nimble to react to it.

    As I recall, the big move on that day occured when a key resistance level was broken and was more likely short stops being taken out.

  57. ebelog(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    Bill do you think that they are going to be a teenager. It seems they have earnings of 50 cent canadian this quarter and at 2 dollars canadian a year you are looking at 12 canadian dollar stock at a 6 multiple and 24 canadian at a 12 multiple. Is this a reasonable estimate becuase if it is I’m buying more

    • Bill Cara(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 6:49 pm

      Without knowing your circumstances and all, it’s impossible for me to say. Personally, I like Teck Corp and think TCK is a Buy at these levels, but there may be some profit-taking after the run-up late this morning. Traders sell after good news you know. You may want to study the company and the stock in depth before making a commitment.

      After a (possible) broad market correction, the stock ought to look real attractive for the long-term. On weakness, which is how I like to trade, a put write may be effective.

  58. teamonfuego(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 6:41 pm

    Does anyone here “invest” in penny stocks on the OTC bb?

    • ChrisM(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 7:04 pm

      TOF,
      I have some positions in BB stocks – historically because they’re were the only way I could buy some foreign stocks. I don’t trade them actively, and rarely mention them (not that I post very often anyway) as there’s a blog rule against discussing penny stocks. Currently own Capital Gold (CGLD.OB) and Minera Andes (MNEAF.OB). Check you broker’s commission schedule – can be quite expensive.

    • TN_blogger(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 7:29 pm

      Yes, I do, and have with varying degrees of success and failure.

      I should also add that it is very risky and most money managers are not interested in stocks below $5.

      I believe as much as I dislike Jim Cramer, he is correct when he talks about the business cycle and euphoria attached to small caps. And by B cycle, I mean everything from lack of a business plan to the next MSFT. The reporting standards are also different, depending on listing exchage as well.

      Also Bill, talks about this in his book I think.

      • teamonfuego(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 7:33 pm

        ok, I’ll note that the blog bans discussion about BB stocks. Only question I have is has anyone ever had experience with a penny stock (i.e., under $0.10) switching to a major exchange? I think I remember reading somewhere that CROX was once a penny stock. Is this correct?

        • Pillzilla(118083 comments)-
          April 21, 2009 at 7:44 pm

          I keep 7500 shares of RSMI in my portfolio to remind me never to trade true penny stocks. Its worth a whopping 75 cents, it doubled the other day and was worth $1.50. :’ ) My cost basis is 550$ from some time ago.

          Only trade thus far today.
          PFE @ 13.24….reopened half position I closed at 13.86 last week.

          Did well with the inverses yesterday, but late day trade of FAS took most of those gains. As usual called it correctly, but followed up call with poor trade and sold my winners way to early. Always learning and yesterday was no exception

        • Bill Cara(118083 comments)-
          April 21, 2009 at 10:18 pm

          “ok, I’ll note that the blog bans discussion about BB stocks.”

          teamonfuego,

          I don’t think that’s a fair statement. We do discuss penny stocks here often, and in the case of US Gold (UXG), I even discuss how I trade them for clients.

          However, I know the penny stock business well, and it’s not a place for most of you to be invested — unless you like to lose.

          At CTAB, I am developing an account base that matches the risk profile of five different types of clients. They are surprised, I think, when they first hear that I can trade a single equity (say IBM) and its related puts and calls to produce good profits across the full risk spectrum.

          There is no need to buy risk, which is essentially what a penny stock promoter is selling — unless you can manage it effectively and efficiently. The promoter’s job is a noble pastime for many honest and capable people who have good product to sell, but for most of you, there is no need to play that game. I don’t do it because it simply takes too much time and cost to do the due diligence one needs in order to put on managed risk trades in essentially illiquid stocks. There are some people I know who travel the circuit of most of the penny stock trade shows to do that homework, and it pays off. Or, at least it could.

          The penny stock business is a complex one that ought to be avoided for maybe 95% of you, so I don’t write about it often. I also don’t discourage others from writing about it. Jock and Kaimu regularly write about penny stocks, in fact.

          • ChrisM(118083 comments)-
            April 22, 2009 at 1:57 am

            Bill,
            the reason I mentioned to TOF that penny stocks were off limits was the Community Rule:

            015. Do not present penny stock tips.

            Can we either clarify this or perhaps eliminate it please.

  59. ebelog(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    Sorry one more question bill, what do you think of MICC earnings. Looks like 1.29 this quarter basic earnings (not sure what this exactly means). If that extrapolates to > 5.00 a year again with a conservative 9 multiple your looking at 45 or a bit more to upside. Do you think its got more in the tank for the long run given its excellent emerging markets exposure

    • Bill Cara(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 6:52 pm

      ebelog, I’m not comfortable answering these questions. I like MICC and the business, but this isn’t a blog that picks stocks — unless, of course, I am making a point to inform or educate students of the market, or learn something from this community.

  60. Les(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 6:55 pm

    I see coal represents the lion’s share of its operating revenue this quarter. Any talk of teck of selling some or all of this energy asset to aid debt still? Or does that bridge facility permit them to keep everything?

    It’d make a nice base metal/energy/non-US Peso holding.

  61. casey(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 6:59 pm
  62. ebelog(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    np bill I was just trying to see your general feel after earnungs, i had positions prior and IU have added a bit but I am hedging to try and play a liitle billy ball. it’s nice to hit a homerun once in a while and I do view these stocks as longer term holdings until I reach what seems to be a reasonable valuation. Sorry again to put you on the spot

  63. NYUGrad(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    But the reason was i saw an ascending triangle forming. and it just consolidated and broke up.

    Not sure how long i will hold. will prob sell before close.

  64. 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    Putting money behind my above ‘thesis.’

    • 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 7:56 pm

      Vinod- In case you’re wondering, putting money behind it is the best way for me to gauge what’s going on 😉

  65. Kerry(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 7:40 pm

    I got out of FAZ very early this morning from buying it last week. I was not that comfortable holding it over last night after the monster run up Monday. I should have jumped into FAS, but I would be too busy at work today to see what was happening in the market until now.

    Vinod…I will go with your fake out on the banks and back into FAZ @ $9.70 for another overnight hold. I think the Dow will stay below 8,000 this week…

  66. 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    last 24 hours>> what exactly would cause them to sell now?

    • Les(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 7:48 pm

      good question.

      UK budget will disrupt the party Wednesday.

      Present volatility in FAS says many unloading at end of session. Don’t like tomorrow.

      Wondering if market movers trying to absorb selling, push on through to the other side.

      I’m holding canadian short financials, for lower opening tomorrow.

    • Craig(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 7:50 pm

      Fear and profit preservation for fund managers.
      They took a beating last year and won’t wait to pull the trigger if it starts to head south.

      What financials/banks report next?

  67. found(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 7:49 pm

    Creeped back this afternoon…any thoughts on tomorrow? Picked up more KGC today… 🙂

  68. David(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    25 shares at $63.25, in addition to the 100 shares I was already holding. Placed a sell limit order at $73.25. The point of this trade is just to compensate for the value erosion in SKF due to fluctuations — this is the second time in a week when after being above $70, SKF drops to low 60’s…

  69. teamonfuego(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    took off some just before close.

  70. vanillabean(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    Unreal – anyone watching this dive

    • found(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 8:02 pm

      Had my finger on the buy button for the last 5 minutes – then at the last second decided my indecision was a reason not to buy. I’ll contemplate it again after hours.

      • vanillabean(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 8:35 pm

        Hi found,

        I bought some after hours. 27.25. 2nd usually knows what he is doing – maybe he was just a little early this time – for me, this is worth a gamble.

        vb

        PS – Kaimu – so quiet without your comments. hope you are back soon!

        • Shiva(118083 comments)-
          April 21, 2009 at 8:37 pm

          WFC is reporting tomorrow, so SRS could go up

        • 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
          April 21, 2009 at 10:37 pm

          vb-

          (a) I exited SRS @ 33.77 this morning, not long after I bought in. It was a belated post, and I apologize for that. The volatility today meant a string of pitches across the plate, and I was hitting line drives in place of posting. But SRS @ 27.25? I’m not too worried about a profitable exit. In fact, you could exit right now at 27.51.

          (b) As for knowing what I’m doing, I’m not sure how to respond. For me it’s all psychology, although I’m starting to find chart signals to back those up (and what are charts, other than reflections of trader psychology with their own clues). I try my best to get inside the heads of traders, and trade off what I think they’re thinking/feeling. I’m often wrong. If you go back over my posts the past few years, I’ve been early/late/wrong many times. The one wrong call that really stands out is/(WAS, actually) BMD, now BMD.to. What saved me was my penchant for trading around positions/frequent changes of sentiment, and the fact that I maximized position size at 6%.

          Good luck with SRS.

    • Les(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 8:02 pm

      We were certainly watching FAS rally into close. son of a gun. And that, by default, means SRS/SKF/FAZ tanks.

      Hate it when that happens – and I’m on the wrong side of the bet.

      We shall meet again FAS, 9am tommorow at the OK Corral.

      night all.

  71. NYUGrad(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    leaving with 5% gain on the trade. Booked 23% gain on my sale of FAZ this am.

    not a bad day. who knows what tomorrow will bring.

  72. fireworks(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    And one cannot afford to be naive under present market conditions…

    If you own gold, you are in a war. You are under assault. You had better figure this out early.

    There is a full-scale war against you. The politicians and central bankers who are conducting this war against you are determined to see that you lose money on your investment.

    The reason why you are under assault is because you have demonstrated by your purchase of gold or a gold-related investment that you do not trust the monetary policies of your nation’s central bank. If you are an American, this means you do not trust the monetary policies of the Federal Reserve System. You have taken a step that confirms your lack of trust in the government and its central bank. If you think the government and the central bank will sit quietly, while millions of citizens buy gold as a way to hedge against government and central bank policies, you are terminally naive.

    http://tinyurl.com/ctbsro

    • FranSix(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 9:11 pm

      From the article:

      “At some point, the number of investors who figure out that they had better buy gold is going to go from less than 1% of the public to 5%. When that happens, the supply of gold will not increase, and the price of gold will skyrocket. If as many as 10% of the investing public tries to put 10% of their assets in gold, I suspect the price of gold would go to $10,000 an ounce. The gold market is so marginal in the overall commodities market that the attempted 10% of investors to increase their holdings of gold to 10% of their assets would make today’s holders of gold very rich and very happy. I think at some point this is going to happen, but I think it is going to happen in a time of price inflation so bad that the purchasing power of the currencies will decline so fast and so far that the fact that you can get rich in fiat money by selling your gold will not persuade you to sell your gold.”

      Gold would be scarce and hard to find at that price. Makes a very strong case for mining stocks, no?

      • mntinhi(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 9:39 pm

        I have been saying for about a year now that goldbugs are at war with every government in the world. Gold used to be the canary in the mine, but with are form of government (lie, spin, omit, confuse, cheat, steal, and betray) we are now at war with honesty. Gold use to be able to tell our leaders that you might be having some problems with your currency when gold spiked, but not now! The only play in this market is either to trade prices(Bill’s strategy) or buy gold for safty. I’m not that good at trading prices so I will buy gold at any dip.
        Kamiu hope your doing better, miss your posts, we need all the goldbugs we can get!

        • BOB 47(118083 comments)-
          April 21, 2009 at 9:44 pm

          Well said !!!

          • TN_blogger(118083 comments)-
            April 21, 2009 at 10:50 pm

            And it is true, a lot has been well, said!

      • BillySundance(118083 comments)-
        April 21, 2009 at 9:46 pm

        “If as many as 10% of the investing public tries to put 10% of their assets in gold, I suspect the price of gold would go to $10,000 an ounce.”

        The problem with this statements is that it assumes that “10% of the public” is indifferent to the price of gold and that they would be investing 10% of their assets in gold. If I buy 10% of my assets in gold at $1000 and then it rises to $10,000 it now comprises 90% of my portfolio (remaining portfolio held constant).

        Right now, I am not so sure that gold isn’t relatively fairly valued. Sure, its off its high of just above $1000 USD (where it spent virtually no time – quickly peaking and falling back). In my eyes physical gold has been an adequate store of value in real terms during the panic. Think how much more house, car, boat, gasoline, etc you can buy with your gold than you could at the peak of the equity market/housing craze. Think about how many Euros,Francs,Aussie dollars,Canadian dollars you can get for an ounce of gold than you could at the top of the equity market.

        I think too many people are focused on the value of gold strictly in $USD terms.

  73. Mark Barry(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    Covered my COF short @ 13.24 for a nice $ return on a larger than usual trade for me. Only play here for me was on earnings report.

  74. Bill Cara(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 9:47 pm
    • 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 11:48 pm

      I agree completely.

      I have no way of knowing, but I suspect there are readers who have bought and held the ultras. I’ve held a few myself for periods far longer than a day, and paid the price. In retrospect, those of us who played QID/SKF/SDS/DXD/SMN/DUG/FXP during 2007-mid 2008 were lucky to have gotten out when we did. More recently, I made the decision to cut my holding periods to 1-2 days, which is pretty much a necessity for the 3x ETFs.

      On the other hand, the ultras are xlnt trading vehicles, and apart from options it’s difficult to replicate the kinds of returns possible with them.

      It’s like learning to drive. You can’t really do it on the Autobahn. As one progresses, one begins to seek out roadways with higher speed limits, trickier terrain, and more traffic. Some drivers go on to high performance cars and competitive speedways.

      Life is full of ‘dangerous’ devices/sports/procedures that are beautifully designed for their purpose(s) and entirely safe when handled/executed properly. We cook on high-temperature stoves and grills. We drive 2-ton metal vehicles at high speeds. We scuba dive to high-pressure depths. And we trade 3x ETFs.

      • Mackinaw(118083 comments)-
        April 22, 2009 at 12:39 am

        There’s a few things I’ve learned about these 2X, 3X ETFS. 1) They can work for day trading if there’s lots of volatility and you’re “in the groove”, but they are nerve-racking (and do your TA on the underlying index, not the ETF), 2) You’re a gambler if you hold them overnight, EXCEPT 3) when the world seems at an end, with no future for anything ever going up again, short the inverse ones (e.g. FXP, FAZ, BGZ, TZA, etc) and hold on!

        I found the regulatory questions posed in Bill’s post,

        http://caracommunity.com/content/caras-commentary-

        to be very important; especially now that 3X ETFs are available on the treasury ladder (groan).

        The idea that there are these “obscene money-makers” (see point 3 above) around, requiring only a little market panic to work, scares the hell out of me when I think about the morning strategy chats that go on behind HB&B’s closed doors. The only consolation, I think, is that all eyes are focused on these bankers/$-managers and if they DARE steal another significant penny from Ma&Pa’s 401Ks they’ll have a real tea-party to deal with. As Bill said, back in Sep/Oct/Nov, they got their pound of flesh, now they (specifically Paulson, at the time) have to deliver the Bull or they can kiss their business (model?) goodbye forever.

    • Dave M(118083 comments)-
      April 22, 2009 at 5:50 am

      To provide a good example of longer term decay, here are the prices of FAS and FAZ from inception to April 21:

      Financial Bear 3x Shares (FAZ)

      Day Date Open High Low Close Volume
      === =========== ========== ========== ========== ========== ===========
      Thu 06-Nov-2008 60.2200 71.4100 60.2200 71.4100 14460
      Tue 21-Apr-2009 13.2300 13.2600 9.1300 9.1500 350686656

      (Loss of 85% since inception open)

      Financial Bull 3x Shares (FAS)

      Day Date Open High Low Close Volume
      === =========== ========== ========== ========== ========== ===========
      Thu 06-Nov-2008 55.5000 55.5000 48.6800 49.1500 10313
      Tue 21-Apr-2009 5.6800 7.8300 5.6000 7.8120 496271296

      (Loss of 86% since inception open)

      I think my odds are better at the casino.

  75. Bill Cara(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 10:01 pm
  76. westcoaster(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    Thanks for passing this on Bill. Could be a weakening of oil stocks over the summer. Less driving, more sweltering, back to the ’50’s! Getting my bicycles tuned for the short runs as we speak.

  77. Mackinaw(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 10:39 pm

    I found today’s discourse an especially good read. Thanks all!

  78. teamonfuego(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    I’m sure you’ve noticed the absurd volatility in companies after they announce earnings. Oftentimes I’ve found that a company’s option volatility index will decrease significantly after earnings are announced (which is normal) only to see the stock have a HUGE swing during the course of the day. I noticed this with BBBY, HOG, BBY, WFC, and so many others.

    The similar characteristic amongst all of them that I could find was that they were either heavily shorted/heavily beaten down or that they were trading at very low estimated p/e’s. Typically, they opened low and finished much higher but sometimes they opened higher and finished much higher or opened flat and closed significantly lower.

    Either way, I think it would be a good idea to buy calls and puts with strike prices within a 5% range or so that the stock looks like it will open at. Two interesting plays I see for tomorrow are:

    FCX
    NE

    to a lesser extent I will follow TEX.

    Let me know what you’re all thinking about this strategy.

    • Mark Barry(118083 comments)-
      April 21, 2009 at 11:26 pm

      TOF- “I’m sure you’ve noticed the absurd volatility in companies after they announce earnings.” Yes! That was exactly the trade I put on today with COF. I also felt they were going to report a loss. But really, it was based more on the dumb initial reactions I’ve seen AH. Take a look at COF’s tape today. Your trade is based on the same principle, yet seems safer than mine.

    • Shiva(118083 comments)-
      April 22, 2009 at 12:19 am

      TOF, it does not work very well. First you have to be pretty good with your call, second IV goes up before earnings and deflates, so option price goes down. So even though prediction is right, stock also moves to ur direction, OTM option prices may not move much, unless stock makes a really big gap up/down in your direction.

      • teamonfuego(118083 comments)-
        April 22, 2009 at 2:59 am

        Shiva,

        Sorry about this. I realized I wrote a confusing post. I’m referring to doing a straddle almost immediately after it opens AFTER earnings are released. The reason is the premium comes out of the options yet the volatility in the stock doesn’t seem to go away, especially in those highly liquid and shorted stocks. I think both NE and FCX meet those requirements. I was dead set on doing this after BBBY opened after earnings and had I done that the calls would have gone up 5-fold while the puts would have gone down 80%; the net change of which would net you a solid 2.6-fold return in one intraday trade. I know BBBY was not the norm, but I’ve seen this kind of volatility in a lot of stocks lately during the day after it reports earnings.

        • Shiva(118083 comments)-
          April 22, 2009 at 3:07 am

          TOF, You would probably have to papertrade it for one or two results (aapl on thursday might be a good pick). First 1/2 hour from market open since options are thinly traded in that hour, ask/bids are not that good. It all depends how much +/- stock closes from the open. Might be worth trying with a few contracts.

          • teamonfuego(118083 comments)-
            April 22, 2009 at 6:05 am

            yeah, i agree it should be paper traded. i’ve tried it out for BBBY, MOS, and HOG and they all worked like a gem. I’m sure there are some duds, but i think it’s best to pick the most volatile and liquid companies you can find.

  79. Grym(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 11:40 pm
  80. 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
    April 21, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    fwiw…

  81. Bill Cara(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 12:04 am

    WSJ reported:

    The Obama administration plans to create a new military command to coordinate the defense of Pentagon computer networks and improve U.S. offensive capabilities in cyberwarfare.

    The initiative will reshape the military’s efforts to protect its networks from attacks by hackers, especially those from countries such as China and Russia. The new command will be unveiled within the next few weeks, Pentagon officials said.

    Is it any wonder?

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124027491029837401

    If hackers can break into a $300 billion ultra-secret defense project, is there anything the US govt can do right? When the President says he’s outraged by a few traders at AIG, isn’t he missing the point as to why he was elected? If America’s most costly ever military project can be compromised by hackers, how can the govt say it is protecting the people?

    • vanillabean(118083 comments)-
      April 22, 2009 at 2:49 am

      HA!

      this looks like the BACK DOOR promise software that compromised the US Defense. This was almost 5 years ago.

      the last administration was warned of the HOLE in our defense software and Ted Kennedy received a letter and he ignored it. The Bush administration said NO

      Obama is making changes but he has alot of cleaning up to do.

      I have documentation for this and prefer not to publish it but someday I just might do it.

      I have a large box of stuff that will blow your mind. Kaimu might be the one to expose it.

      VB

      • Corner Stone(118083 comments)-
        April 22, 2009 at 3:40 am

        Listen VB, just because Kaimu is laid up does not give you rights to his trademark “HA!” or use of ALL CAPS to make a point. Just want to retain his a priori rights in this august forum.
        Next you’ll be trying to pull off something like “IT ALL WORKS UNTIL OUR BEST THINKING ELIMINATE US FED”
        🙂

        • vanillabean(118083 comments)-
          April 22, 2009 at 4:14 am

          Corner Stone,

          Sorry to offend you, just trying to contribute to the blog and I do have real factual documentation to support my point. It was only a compliment to Kaimu and I did not mean to infringe on his “trademark” in any way. 🙂

          )&^(&

          vb

          • ChrisM(118083 comments)-
            April 22, 2009 at 4:28 am

            And here’s another fine example of lack of security:
            http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8010729.stm

          • Mark Barry(118083 comments)-
            April 22, 2009 at 4:51 am

            VB- Not to jump in here, but I’m sure CS was only being sarcastic. I can’t tell you the amount of times I’ve thought of something I thought was funny only not to post it. That’s the problem with non-facial communication. The “pitch” is lost.
            It’s getting late and I’m just a big old softy and didn’t want you to worry about it.
            Best,
            MB

    • Grym(118083 comments)-
      April 22, 2009 at 12:40 pm
  82. Mackinaw(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 12:52 am

    It figures that these Swiss Gnomes would start mucking around in the space just as I got interested in them again (eg. Devry – DV).

    http://www.streetinsider.com/New+Coverage/Educatio

  83. NYUGrad(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 1:27 am

    http://tinyurl.com/d66z3l

    All cash. no position

  84. Mackinaw(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 1:28 am
  85. Ventilation Blues(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 3:40 am

    Bill and community , an awsome thanks. I had a Sell Limit floating in my account for $9.1. Logged in this morning to see a sell for $10.03, OUCH!!!. Sweet. A few specific skills learned directly from this forumn are coming through here. I tend to BUY and HOLD now, set what I feel is a comftable SELL LIMIT. Observing the prices and just relaxing when i get a -50% loss on a purchase. TCK really took us for a ride and payed off by holding on. I will BUY again.
    I really want to see WGW do something now.
    Set up a watch list for these firms (DRYS GNK DSX PRGN EXM NM)as mentioned earlier in this forum as a kind of Baltic Index Tracker. What do people think about the risks of getting involved with this set? Wait for the next wave of selling or market correction?

    • terryC(118083 comments)-
      April 22, 2009 at 5:12 am

      I’m really delighted that so many have been fortunate to sell TCK after being presented with today’s market opportunity. The complete 2008 TCK price collapse is due almost entirely to a bad management decision last yeat to spend $14 Billion for the Fording Coal Trust. They must have bought into the myth spread during last year’s US election campaign – that there was such a thing as “clean coal”! Sorry, but there is no such thing as clean coal and the future for the dirty kind remains as bleak as the steel industry it feeds – at least for the forseeable future.

      Now does today’s news that amendments and extentions to almost $10B US in term loans and bridge financing ( at a cost of $96M just for extention fees ) really support a sustainable 35% increase in share price? Frankly, I don’t think so. After TCK has unloaded their several more-promising metals and energy properties to keep the ship afloat – what’s left to deal with the bankers when they come calling in 2011? And now we have a fox in the henhouse working his plan. The BAMsters will see that this does not end well for the holders, so I would be looking at downside -protective strategies if one must play TCK.

  86. proudPapa(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 4:02 am
  87. NYUGrad(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 4:30 am

    Since many of you brought up TA on underlying, i went and looked at $RIFIN, the index the 3x inverse financials trades upon.

    Question 1. Do specialists realize more and more people seek out inverse h&s and now know when/where to kill the move. I cannot tell you how many Inverse h&s have confirmed a breakout, but only to fail at the 1st level of resistance and tank afterwards.

    Looking at the charts alone is not recommended. But if i were trading in a vacuum I would guess that if RIFIN cannot hold the 50 day ema, it is going lower. But then again Geithner & Friends are running the show.

  88. Les(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 7:05 am
  89. Les(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 8:11 am

    Pelosi talks of wide ranging investigation, simon johnson gets air time on tech ticker and talks of addressing financials systemically today.

    short-term tactical change in plan by the movers and shakers?

    pre-market is responding appropriately.

  90. Les(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 9:22 am

    “There is an awful lot of hate out there for leveraged ETFs. Microcap Speculator identified the Direxion 3X ETFs as “Wealth Destroyers.” Jim Cramer called the Ultrashort Financials ProShares (SKF) the “ETF of mass banking destruction.”

    Some have called for banning these ETFs, but why bother? They don’t hide the fact that they’re the financial equivalent of crystal meth, and traders who abuse them are destined to go broke sooner or later.”

    http://tinyurl.com/cj8rhg

    I think we understand the dangers of 3x now. Thanks Si02. I’m a near-reformed addict.

  91. Les(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 9:24 am

    I’m relying on TBT to be a treasury short.

    Does it mean we’ve got to wait for the day yields skyrocket and we jump on board?

    *placing hand in the air* – I solemnly swear that I will never play a 3X ETF again. They hurt too much and I risk getting the can for 90 days.

    Fortunately the 2X financial ETF’s in Canada have a lot less volatility in them then their US counterparts.

    Still, find myself going long with hard assets. Will avoid energy (maybe the one US coal miner with Australian assets) until we hear of inventory dropping.

    Thanks for the heads up Bill.

  92. barry(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 9:52 am

    Interesting how little coverage Senator Waxman’s carbon tax efforts are getting. Wish I could get a handle on the true costs in average family terms in publications other than farm commodity related. BUT Farmers are sure worried now about about the impact on food commods and production….IE:

    http://www.farmfutures.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=CD26

    “According to the Agriculture Department, any agricultural operation of more than 25 dairy cows, 50 beef cattle, 200 hogs or 500 acres of corn would be subject to emission fees that could run into thousands of dollars and is expected to impact more than 90% of the livestock industry.”

    …………………………………………….

    Also, I still can only find the $2400/yr estimated increased utility costs for the ave. American family (link below) from carbon taxes. Add this to current tax burdens and the yet unknown increases expected in food, and pretty soon it gets to be a big figure. I worry that this tax will have serious unexpected effects on the cost of living and quality of life, especially on the retired and young starting families in the US.

    http://www.farmfutures.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=CD26

  93. Les(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 10:26 am
  94. 2nd_ave(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 10:57 am

    http://tinyurl.com/cvsc3d

    “The reason that bullion’s decline has been so puzzling: One would have thought that the yellow metal would have risen in the wake of the obviously inflationary implications of the banking bailouts that are being undertaken globally. ( Read Peter Brimelow’s April 20 column.)
    But, far from rising, gold has fallen over the last couple of months.
    There no doubt are many causes of gold’s decline, many of which have been widely noted among the gold trading community. But relatively few commentators have focused on the role that sentiment played in the decline.
    I find that curious, because sentiment is acknowledged in other arenas to have a powerful impact on the market’s short-term direction. Why should gold be exempt from the conclusions of contrarian analysis?”

    Les- As with any trade predicated on an underlying logic, you should be careful. Sometimes the ‘obvious’ trade gets crowded, and the crowd is left watching a ‘counter-‘ scenario unfold. I had position in RRPIX in 2003/2004 that took months to unfold, and even then the results were muted. There are members here who began to scale into RRPIX in late 07/2008 in the high teens. And of course, with TBT you are once again playing a leveraged ETF. Might do better shorting TLT.

    • Les(118083 comments)-
      April 22, 2009 at 11:12 am

      Not in any hurry to do anything 2nd. Bought SRS and TBT last week, watched them both tank, sold em and then watched them recover this week and then some.

      This volatility is killing me.

      Happy to trade on Bill’s TOG. just question of timing.

  95. Les(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 11:17 am

    waiting to see how it is spun in the media.

  96. Bull Hunter(118083 comments)-
    April 22, 2009 at 11:50 am

    Good morning.

    FSLR – Price Target Raised from $130 to $150 @ Citigroup. Hold.

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