« Upset reader asks for public apology, Mon., May 23, 2005, 10:29 PM | Main | FOMC Minutes and Cara Minutes, Tues., May 24, 2005, 5:06 PM »

May 24, 2005

Gross-Fuller Deflation/Inflation, Tues., May 24, 2005, 5:51 AM

In what is more grist for the mill, Bill Gross and David Fuller weigh in on the deflation/inflation subject, and Bill Cara adds a (potentially) concluding remark.

Bill Gross' Investment Outlook (May/June issue):The Strange Tale of the Bare-Bottomed King - a brief section from the conclusion:

"Our point on the "Pump" then, is to suggest that in combination with a globalized free trade-based economy exhibiting a surfeit of cheap Asian labor, it will be difficult to generate U.S. inflation higher than our current 3% even if interest rates fall further. If 3% inflation is all we can get from the past 5-years' asset inflation, it's hard to believe that we get more from what's left. The potential to reflate via interest rates is nearly over.

We draw the same conclusion for Euroland and Japan. Japan, of course, is the primary example of how 0% nominal yields can fail to generate any inflation whatsoever, is it not? Continued disinflation not reflation, then, will rule our fragile future kingdom, with the potential for 1-2% CPI prints in most years between 2006 and 2010 throughout much of the global economy.

Readers may remember our past few years' Secular Forum descriptions of the tug-of-war between disinflation and reflationary forces. We have proclaimed a winner based on our observation of massive fiscal and monetary global simulation described above, the limited inflationary response, and the lack of further ammunition. Long live our disinflationary King."

The Inflationary view comes from David Fuller, Fullermoney (May 23 Comment of the Day):

"Bill Gross' view is holding sway at the moment, judging from long-dated government bond yields and the stock market's rally following the March to mid-April sell off. If he's right in the longer-term forecast through 2010, then we have a generally benign environment for both bonds and equities.

That would be nice, but I think Bill Gross is way premature to assume an extended disinflationary period, mainly on the basis of cheap labour from China, demand for T-Bonds from Asia and the absence of inflation so far, other than in asset prices. And those who pay the household bills will question the accuracy of official inflation statistics, in terms of the real world.

I won't repeat all my counter-arguments, with which subscribers are either already familiar or can access using the search facility, but I maintain that we are in the early years of a new and secular inflationary cycle fuelled by record credit creation.

Of course we have seen this inflation first in asset markets. And yes, the China factor, plus what Bill Gross describes at a de facto Bretton Woods II, has limited pricing power and capped wages in a very competitive global economy. This will encourage additional credit creation (the electronic equivalent of printing money) by central banks whenever growth wanes, and it's not very robust outside of emerging Asia and some commodity producing countries elsewhere.

If I'm right, expect further inflation/stagflation pressures, over the next 10 to fifteen years, in rolling waves rather than linear fashion. These will occur, for quite a while, along side remaining pockets of disinflation.

This environment will be bearish for government long-dated bonds more often than not, and also produce choppy stock markets, where medium-term trends are the norm. We will also see higher prices, in rolling waves, for precious metals and most industrial commodities. Wage pressures seldom become a problem before the latter stage of inflationary cycles, and they are ultimately responsible for the next cycle of anti-inflation policies.

Lastly, Japan's history over the last fifteen years is not a prologue for the rest of us. The Bank of Japan drove the country into deflation with an unnecessarily long monetary squeeze. The US Federal Reserve has repeatedly expressed its determination to avoid that problem. And how many more years of weak growth and rising unemployment before European Central Bankers become born-again inflationists?"

Re the David Fuller and Bill Gross commentary: I feel both are partly right.

I fear there will be rolling inflation AND deflation, in cycles that grow in amplitude until there is a failure in the global financial system. Nations are at trade war; hedge funds are being managed imprudently; major banks are so competitive that their prop desks are in daily trading wars. The industrial and retail sectors don't know where to turn.

It is a period where greater wealth is being transferred from the middle class to the rich than at any time in history. And, some people are fooling themselves if they believe that rising real estate prices are sustainable.

More importantly for me, these are also emotionally traumatic times personally and I have been questioning whether I should be pushing myself, but I feel that if I stop blogging for a couple weeks or months there is a good chance I will never return. I don't need to do this.

I'll figure it out soon.

Cordially,

/Bill


Posted by Posted by Bill Cara on May 24, 2005 05:51:30 AM | Category: Cara Today in the Market

Discourse

Bill,

I for one certainly hope you stay in the game. Your blog has become a valuable independent voice, and I would hate to see it fade away.

Regards,
Josh Silverman

Posted by: Josh Silverman at May 24, 2005 7:36 AM [link]

Bill, Although I agree with Josh; I am sure most here would understand if you finally did decide to call it a day on the blog, a result of the extreme family related emotional stress you have been contantly under and for so long.

Kind Regards,
Keith.

Posted by: Keith Nelson at May 24, 2005 9:11 AM [link]


Four months ago, Bill Gross was talking stagflation with the government under reporting inflation by 1% and thus GNP being really 1% less. Now he's talking massive disinflation with long term yields heading for 3%. Which is it Bill? I assume Pimco was selling bonds 4 months ago and is now aggressively purchasing them.

Posted by: papillon at May 24, 2005 9:12 AM [link]

I agree with Josh Silverman. Your blog has been a helpful resource.

Best of luck with your family.
-B

Posted by: blo5ish at May 24, 2005 10:22 AM [link]

I agree with Papillon. I have long enjoyed Bill Gross' commentaries, bu I feel this one is just too self serving. Long-term treasury yields to stay at 3-4.5% for the next 5 years! How convenient....

Playing devil's advocate for a minute though, and assuming that Bill is right on. I think those projections imply a shock type of adjustment in interest rates and the world economy instead of the slow and easy workout that everyone has been hoping for.

If yields are too continue to fall over next 3-5 years while Asian economies accumulate more of our debt - that leads to a greater imbalance as far as I can see, and it will take the "Bretton Woods II" regime right to the brink. It is a dangerous game of chicken.

-Ben

Posted by: Ben Green at May 24, 2005 1:46 PM [link]

The demise of Bill Cara and his vision would definitely be a great disappointment. I wish you the best in what is occuring in your life at this time. You know you make a difference and that's what matters...In kindness /sergio

Posted by: Sergio at May 24, 2005 4:44 PM [link]